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Suspiria, for the initial stroke, the butt of the stick is closest to midline. For each subsequent stroke, the butt moves laterally (away from your body) while the tip stays basically in the same place on the head. This is different from the Chapin-Moeller stroke where the butt moves up and to the rear with each subsequent stroke (see my post on why Chapin yelled at me at NAMM).
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haha, Ok. Understood it now. Let me fiddle around with that for a while.Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Vermiglio:
(see my post on why Chapin yelled at me at NAMM).
I'd like to some input to the following issue:
Here at university I rarely get the chance to practice on a full kit, so I'm sadly restricted to my pad for most of the time. I am trying to make the best of things by focusing on my technique more than ever. Technique never really has been an issue for me, but lately I'm really into creating my own hybrid of techniques that really work for me. For example, I'm really looking into Moeller and all that goes along with it at the moment. My question concerns the following clip:
http://www.drummerworld.com/Clinic/D...kl_double.html
In this, Weckl explains his technique for double-stroke rolls. He states that for the second stroke, he tends to turn his wrist outwards. Now, when I do doubles, I do not make a second full stroke, but rather use the rebound and create a snap with my fingers, to bring the stick down again. I guess I am essentially doing the same as Dave, but without that twist.
Towards the end of the video you get a birds-eye-view and you'll be able to see exactly what I mean with this "twist". So my question would be, how many of you do this? I realize that it's all a part of being as loose as possible, but twisting my wrist slightly seems like a very unnatural movement for me. What do you guys think? Have your doubles improved using this method? Give it a shot and let me know what you think.
I don't do it. It seems to be based on DW's view that you can only really get finger control with the hand in the "thumb up" (French grip) position. This is probably the one thing of his I've never really agreed with. I find I can get (what seems to me, anyway) adequate finger control with an "American grip" position. Like you, I snap the stick back with the fingers but without turning the hand over.
I think, Weckls "twist" makes sense.
you are not playing doubles only on the snare.
perhaps the most important double stroake is of course on the CYMBAL.
and it's a big difference if you play the weckl twist,
because the second stroake could be for example hit the BELL !!!! HuHu !
for this, you need the sidemotion.
and why should you practice the double stroake on the snare not like the double stroake on the cymbal ? makes no sense.
Thats exactly right, Andy. The lateral motion is slight. I would reckon that quite a lot of drummers do exactly the same thing without realizing it. I also noticed a large and immediate difference. In my singles as well, too.
Another way to think about it is that its a lot easier for you to twist your wrist than it is to pull your palm up in a pronated position. (carpal tunnel, anyone?)
Schreck ... for me, hitting 2 targets in a double would be achieved more with the fingers than with the wrist - the twist is quite small when played at speed. Not big enough to move the tip very far - the fingers can change the direction of the stick much more easily. I put a little arm movement in there, too ...
the reverse finger technique....Joe Porcaro taught us at M.I.....once you get it....it's hard to not use it...hell, you'll do more singles than doubles after that. I've got it with one hand and I'm working on the left....to match the speed of my right hand I've had to use traditional grip which is a pain the the ass at times. (I grew up playing matched and I'm more of a "rock guy" than a jazzer....don't kick me out yet) Anyway, I believe whatever works for you. You don't have to play like DW or VC or Jo Mama Besser or Mick Shrimpton, etc, etc, etc,....
Suspiria,
Go here: http://www.tigerbill.com/subjects/drumlessons.htm, and read out the 3 part lesson called "Building Monster Chops." Tiger Bill has been promising to come out with a DVD on the subject for a year now. In the mean time, this is the best, most useful, lesson on hand technique I've ever seen.
Thanks for the link Henry. I have actually come across that site before, but never really made use of it. I am really looking to develop my already existing technique and I feel the site covers mainly basics a lot of the time.